Scaling an engineering organization to over 100 people is an incredible journey, filled with challenges and lessons learned. Today, we're diving into the experiences of Thiago Ghisi, an engineering director at Nubank, as he shares his insights on leading and growing a successful engineering team.
The Journey to 100+
Thiago's career path has taken him through various companies, including Apple, American Express, and Thoughtworks, each offering unique opportunities for growth. He emphasizes the importance of understanding one's personal and organizational growth trajectory, especially when managing a team.
Ups and Downs of Org Growth
Thiago's journey began in 2019 when he first managed engineering managers. By 2020, the pandemic brought new challenges, and he found himself managing contractors, TPMs, and navigating the complexities of a growing team. Despite the ups and downs, he highlights the importance of maintaining a consistent approach and not getting complacent.
Scaling at Nubank
Joining Nubank post-IPO, Thiago's team grew rapidly, reaching 49 engineers by the end of 2022. In 2023, he made a strategic move, transferring to another org focused on platforms and infrastructure. This move, although challenging, allowed him to gain a deeper understanding of the organization's needs and set the foundation for further growth.
The Big Scale-Up
In 2024, Thiago's team experienced a significant scale-up and consolidation. Many areas merged into his org, and he took on additional responsibilities, becoming a general manager. This transition required managing not only engineers but also PMs, designers, and analytics engineers. It was a crucial step in his leadership journey, teaching him the importance of managing across different functions.
Lessons from the High Growth Years
Thiago's focus is on the last three years of high growth, where he learned valuable lessons. He emphasizes the need to establish an operational cadence, ensuring the team operates efficiently with well-defined rituals and meetings. Managing both high and low performers is crucial, as it allows leaders to leverage their strengths and address performance gaps early on.
Building Leadership and Shaping Culture
Creating a strong leadership team was a game-changer for Thiago. By cultivating psychological safety and shaping the culture, he enabled his team to grow from 30 to 100. Shaping the long-term view involved identifying problems, clustering them, and finding solutions that addressed multiple issues. Observability, for example, became a key focus, and he engaged industry experts to build it into the team's culture.
Strategic Reorgs and Leveling Up
Thiago's strategic reorgs were about fine-tuning the org chart continuously, ensuring it reflected the organization's priorities and talent distribution. He emphasizes the importance of finding the right balance and creating opportunities for growth. Acting as a driving bar raiser, he influenced and inspired his team, picking up issues and instigating positive change.
Lessons Learned: Managing People and Scaling
Making decisions, even if they're not perfect, is better than stagnation. Thiago learned that performance management is crucial, and starting performance improvement plans early can prevent issues from escalating. He also highlights the importance of treating peers as the first team, fostering a collaborative environment where managers support each other.
The Power of Culture and Influence
Culture is shaped by actions, not just words. Thiago emphasizes the impact of promotions and firings on the team's culture. He learned that managerial cost is real, and having fully allocated engineering managers is crucial for effective team management. Writing things down and communicating clearly are essential to avoid distortions and ensure consistency.
Reorgs: Dry Runs and Waves
Reorgs should be approached strategically, with dry runs and gradual implementation. Thiago learned that not all reorgs are bad, especially when they're fine-tuned continuously. Managing skip levels and C-level executives requires a human connection, building relationships, and understanding their motivations.
The Three Levels of Impact
Thiago introduces the three levels of impact framework: understanding the customer, the company's direction, and one's own org. He emphasizes the need to act inside-out, starting with oneself and one's team, then moving to the skip level and the entire company. Managing performance, creating a leadership team, and shaping culture are key at each level.
Final Thoughts on Leadership
As a leader, it's crucial to remember one's own career and impact. Goodwill and relationships are essential, and understanding the 10-30-50 rule can guide senior-level promotions. Setting expectations in writing and staying calibrated are key to success. Finally, being a driving bar raiser, moving the needle forward, is what truly makes an impact.
Conclusion
Great leadership simplifies complexity, establishes a cadence, and drives accountable execution. It's about sharing and driving the vision, building organizational resilience, and preparing the team for continuous growth and succession planning. Thiago's journey is a testament to the power of reinvention and finding one's highest leverage point.
